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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
356
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Posted - 2013.08.30 01:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Joining the call for the Bastion Module to use Tactical Weapons Reconfig, like Siege Modules.
I'm sure that your coders are capable of dealing with the small aspect of the fuel reduction on the skill not messing things up easily in the next four months. It creates a good flow through for ships which have similar functions.
Much like Covert Ops have the same sub skills needed for function as recons do. And EAF need to train the same EWar skills. They don't suddenly change EWar skills simply because you have gone up a ship size.
Also the low base sensor strength still needs a look at. EWar immunity is all fine & dandy when deployed, but they should have at least T1 BS strength on their sensors to allow for any kind of mobility. Otherwise the MJD bonus part is utterly useless since any time not deployed you can't do anything. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
358
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Oh yes, and forgot to mention with a proper deadspace X-L shield booster and a good tank, a single Vargur or Golem can tank the first wave of a Vanguard Incursion by itself. Sure, damage isn't that good when you do (you can't use cap booster, go through charges too fast, thus have to go for cap stable  ), but the fact remains it's still possible. Even discussing that very fact with other designers as it most likely is far too OP for PvE.
This part concerns me, as it indicates that shield tanking is still far superior to armour tanking. Even after the changes you are making. Since you are over-sizing your rep module, yet are still able to make it cap stable & even with the 15% armour buff coming it's still most likely more cap efficient than armour thanks to boost amps also. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
360
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Posted - 2013.09.04 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP. Could you explain what use you actually see these ships seeing?
And how the new stats fill those roles any better than the current stats do?
The only spot I can see improved slightly is Paladins in Incursions (Outside Bastion mode).
Bastion mode also makes them the go to ship for crazy EWar heavy PvE missions.
However I see literally zero PvP application. The reason battleships hardly ever get used for PvP and people prefer the T3 cruisers, shield nano BC gangs or smaller ships often is straight up mobility. A Battleship fleet has to be large enough to take a blap dread hotdrop and have it's own cyno in the wings with it's own dreads & carriers also. Otherwise it will get shadowed & tackled by a faster more manoeuvrable fleet.
Marauders are now even worse at this than they already were before this update.
So. I see even less PvP being done in Marauders than currently is.
I think an explanation of your actual vision for how these ships should be used in general game play, not just a once a month outing, but how you expect a pilot to use them in a daily fashion is needed. Not just a bunch of stats. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
362
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Posted - 2013.09.05 04:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Certainly the conclusion seems to strongly be that webs are the wrong module to be associated with this ship by a long way.
Perhaps look at a more appropriate bonus for a stationary/slow moving ship? That is either never going to get into web range or is still not going to be able to hit it's target.
Smart bomb range would be a very unique bonus (if not usable in High sec due to concord risks) which would be usable. Point range so you can keep point even while they burn away from your 0m/s BS. Two easy options at least. And both PvP related uses. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
362
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Posted - 2013.09.05 04:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Now redo the maths for situation A using a 0% Bastion module. You are trying to combine the effect of two changes at once here. One of which was not currently in game and was only in initial proposal stage. So using two different bastion module proposals to argue a single stat change doesn't work.
The T2 resist profile is to compensate for the Rep bonus being lost. Not for both bonuses. And you get another bonus alongside the T2 resists as a result (Currently Webs, and the ships that used to have a web bonus get a different bonus instead if you want to look at it that way) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
362
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Posted - 2013.09.05 04:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
but those were the two changes proposed so it makes sense to compare them right?
No, because the Bastion resist bonus was removed because CCP felt it was OP in it's own right, in either iteration. They mentioned something about in house thinking it was OP already before they even discussed the T2 resist profile vs rep bonus. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
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Posted - 2013.10.16 04:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The Ironfist wrote:Anyone who thinks this will make em viable for PVP is rather stupid. Why? 750+mil price tag in for that you get what? A ship that without a bastion mode will be less then it is now? ****** resists useless bonus's. Worst of all bastion mode does not add anything meaningful to the ship the resists and stuff are nice but falloff/optimal ? really?
If someone ever uses that kind of ship with bastion modes outside of highsec I'll be the first to throw dreads on it and watch em make nice explosions. 1 Minute is more then enough time to light a cyno and kill 2 of these per dread.. o7 A "pvp" ship exclusively for high-sec good fight fossi I expected more. We get a ship that is able to tank just about any small roaming gang you find in low/null, a ship that gets 60km range with blasters, a ship that is able to re-position itself 100km from its target while keeping lock faster than any other battleship. They are very effective snipers both in and out of bastion. Its a ship you cannot jam, damp or tracking disrupt which is going to be very important come November. Individually, the Golem is going to be the biggest winner because of the light and rapid launchers which allows it to engage smaller sized ships. A light rapid launcher/neut Golem rips apart frigate/destroyer gangs of up to 30 solo. In gangs the rail Kronos when coupled with the new E-war frigs can snipe enemy tackle out of the sky long before they can get anywhere near and then whittle down larger buffer fit ships (canes HACs etc) while being able to dictate range or just sit there and tank them. A 1 billion price tag is nothing.
100km every 70 seconds using MJD & Bastion. I say 70 because you have to wait for the MJD to activate also.
So.... you are going at.... 1429m/s.
A 100MN Machariel goes 1505m/s
A Machariel is able to dictate range BETTER than a Bastion using Marauder.
It also has superior damage (25% infact assuming BS 5).
And is able to actually adjust rather than being locked into situations. And can be remote repped.
And has 100 drone bandwidth making heavies/sentries practical as well as room for spare lights.
The Marauder.... Can be immune to Ewar, but gives up any chance of avoiding tackle by any means other than killing them. And can't use mobility to negate any kind of tackle transversal. It does have superior local reps, which give it a small niche role in tiny gang sizes, but it doesn't scale up at all and any kind of logi give just as much rep power.
The current Bastion mode is not workable. And the hull nerfs when not in Bastion mode mean the hull becomes useless. Even if they restore everything but the drone bay back to current TQ status, these ships STILL do not measure up. They do not have the meaningful DPS in or out of Bastion to be worth their price tag. Nor is their mobility any better than most other BS. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
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Posted - 2013.10.16 05:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Firstly, the mach is getting nerfed, most likely in the next few weeks.
Secondly, these are not large gang ships, they are meant for smaller gang work.
DPS is in line or better than t1 BS with better damage application at longer ranges. slap some webs on that mach and suddenly its not moving all that fast, keeping range on it will be easy and given that they sport buffer tanks you can just munch away at it. It will die long before you run out of reps.
Please show me how a Marauder is better DPS than a T1 BS, given most T1 BS have larger drone bays. Also, if you can web the mach, it can scram & web you back, meaning no MJD, and you are still slower than the Mach at that point. So, no, neither of those points are applicable.
Additionally if it has buffer tank, that's because it has Logi with it, while in Bastion mode, you can only use local reps. If it's solo, it's not going to be buffer tanking. Meaning your better reps are up against it's better DPS. Ok, in a straight up firefight in bastion mode you might 'just' outshoot a Mach assuming you are both equally fit. But the Mach will have plenty of time to disengage and escape if that is the case. While you in the Marauder do not. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
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Posted - 2013.10.16 05:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Please show me how a Marauder is better DPS than a T1 BS, given most T1 BS have larger drone bays. Also, if you can web the mach, it can scram & web you back, meaning no MJD, and you are still slower than the Mach at that point. So, no, neither of those points are applicable.
Additionally if it has buffer tank, that's because it has Logi with it, while in Bastion mode, you can only use local reps. If it's solo, it's not going to be buffer tanking. Meaning your better reps are up against it's better DPS. Ok, in a straight up firefight in bastion mode you might 'just' outshoot a Mach assuming you are both equally fit. But the Mach will have plenty of time to disengage and escape if that is the case. While you in the Marauder do not.
90% of the time you don't launch drones when in a BS in a small gang aside from lights. When sniping you don't tend to have any due to the ranges. The firepower is exactly the same from the turrets/missiles or a little better but with better damage application at longer ranges. Show me a mach with 75.9km webs before bonuses. No mach I have ever seen fits an active tank outside of pve. Its too cap hungry, requires too much fitting room, provides too little buffer and is far too easy to cap out.
Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.
Additionally all your arguments against active tank apply equally to the Marauders active tank. Though the ASB does of course not cap out. But that's a whole other story, and not one two of the marauders can make any use of anyway. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
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Posted - 2013.10.16 05:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.
You use a Hyena. Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Additionally all your arguments against active tank apply equally to the Marauders active tank. Though the ASB does of course not cap out. But that's a whole other story, and not one two of the marauders can make any use of anyway.
Wrong again. The kronos gets 37.5% more repping power than the mach with an added 100% while in bastion. The problems an active mach faces are not issues for the marauders. An active tanking mach trying to MWD towards a bastioned kronos with just one hyena is going to die or be forced off, either way it will burn through a good chunk of its cap boosters.
And then the Mach uses a Hyena also.
If you want to add other ships in, it works both ways as well.
The end result is that you are putting the Marauder into it's perfect jump/snipe scenario and the Mach is pretty much equalling it.
Yet this is supposed to be where the Marauders shine the best.
Now lets put the Marauder into the Machs other roles, and see how much it struggles. The answer is a huge amount.
This means the Marauder is not good enough to see significant use as it stands and they need to significantly strengthen the base hull outside of Bastion mode to get towards the Marauder being practical to use. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
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Posted - 2013.10.16 06:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
And then the Mach uses a Hyena also.
If you want to add other ships in, it works both ways as well.
And do what? Web me in my stationary ship? If anything it will help me to align when I go to use my mjd! Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The end result is that you are putting the Marauder into it's perfect jump/snipe scenario and the Mach is pretty much equalling it.
Yet this is supposed to be where the Marauders shine the best.
Now lets put the Marauder into the Machs other roles, and see how much it struggles. The answer is a huge amount.
Thats because these ships are made for different jobs. Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This means the Marauder is not good enough to see significant use as it stands and they need to significantly strengthen the base hull outside of Bastion mode to get towards the Marauder being practical to use.
Only if you are trying to use it for the wrong job like you are.
Scram you so you can't MJD... Thats what my Hyena will do. And web you so you are even slower than your already slow pace.
Yes, they are made for different jobs. But the Machariel is almost as good at the Marauders job as the Marauder is. While the Marauder sucks at the Machariels job. Meaning overall the Marauder is significantly a worse ship. |
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